{"id":2373,"date":"2016-01-13T00:43:35","date_gmt":"2016-01-13T00:43:35","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iuhrdf.org\/en\/2016\/01\/13\/voa-interview-uighur-professor-ilham-tohti-2013-part-1\/"},"modified":"2016-01-13T00:43:35","modified_gmt":"2016-01-13T00:43:35","slug":"voa-interview-uighur-professor-ilham-tohti-2013-part-1","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/iuhrdf.org\/en\/voa-interview-uighur-professor-ilham-tohti-2013-part-1\/","title":{"rendered":"VOA Interview with Uighur Professor Ilham Tohti in 2013, Part 1"},"content":{"rendered":"

Unfair distribution of political power and social resources<\/p>\n

Unfair distribution of political power and social resources<\/strong><\/h3>\n

Ilham Tohti was an economics professor at Minzu University in Beijing and the foremost Uighur public intellectual in the People\u2019s Republic of China. He was sentenced to life in prison in September 2014 for criticizing the government\u2019s policies in Xinjiang and advocating basic economic, cultural, religious and political rights for the Uighur people. The translation is based on the <\/em>Chinese transcript<\/em><\/a> of a VOA interview with Ilham Tohti in November 2013, less than three months before his detention in January 2014. We will post the interview in four parts but will provide it in whole on the second anniversary of his detention. You may also want to watch our <\/em>32-minute documentary<\/em><\/a> about Ilham Tohti. <\/em>\u2013 The Editors<\/p>\n

BEIJING \u2013 The Chinese government has included Xinjiang and Tibet in its category of \u201ccore interests.\u201d After the eruption of violent incidents in many places in Xinjiang, the Chinese government has enhanced its security presence there. In a recent interview with Voice of America, Ilham Tohti, a scholar of Xinjiang issues at Beijing\u2019s Central Minzu University, spoke about what is really happening in Xinjiang and offered some recommendations to central authorities about how to resolve the Xinjiang issue.<\/p>\n

Voice of America<\/strong> (hereafter, \u201cVOA\u201d): After the deadly car crash at Tiananmen<\/a> on October 28, the only reports available to the Chinese public all have to follow the official reporting from Xinhua. But some overseas media have pointed out that since Tiananmen Square is so densely covered with surveillance cameras, there should be video of the incident from a variety of angles and locations. However, as of today the Chinese official media has not released any video at all. Prof. Ilham Tohti, have you been able to use your Uighur Online<\/em> website to publish any independent opinions and report on what actually happened?<\/p>\n

Ilham Tohti<\/strong>: On the day of the incident, we issued a statement saying that we shouldn\u2019t be in such a hurry to come to a judgment about what happened until there was more evidence. Over the following several days, out of consideration for the safety of others associated with Uighur Online<\/em>, I began publishing opinions under my name only. For several days, I was constantly giving media interviews. But there aren\u2019t very many of us, and I have to consider other people\u2019s safety.<\/p>\n

I worry that, in the absence of any non-government media outlets, many people will only get their information from official sources. I fear that, just as in the past, this will lead to misunderstanding and hatred. I am hoping that, through VOA and other friends in the media, we will be able to make our own voices heard. We want to stop the ethnic hatred. Uighurs and Han are friends, not enemies. The primary responsibility for [this incident] rests with the government.<\/p>\n

I daresay I can predict what the government\u2019s next steps will be, as I\u2019ve been right about this in the past. In a few days, the government will release video showing several Uighurs, their faces covered, tearfully apologizing and saying: \u201cI committed wrongdoing!\u201d However, it will be very difficult to confirm the identities of these people and determine whether or not they are actors. Based on the evidence currently being put forward by the government, it\u2019s hard for us Uighurs to believe [that this is a terrorist attack]. If the government actually has evidence of this, it ought to make it public since this would help its case.<\/p>\n

VOA<\/strong>: During this year\u2019s annual meeting of the National People\u2019s Congress, we interviewed some members of the Xinjiang delegation. At that time, the delegates made a point of mentioning all the various kinds of preferential treatment being offered to Uighurs, like extra points on the university entrance exams, no enforcement of the one-child policy, and bilingual education for ethnic children. What do you think of these preferential policies toward ethnic minorities?<\/p>\n

Ilham Tohti<\/strong>: I have long expressed support for bilingual education, but I feel this policy has come too late. What we Uighurs oppose is being misled with false promises. The so-called bilingual education currently being carried out in Xinjiang is really an education aimed at assimilation into Han culture. The quality of education of Uyghurs is on the decline, and bilingual education is in reality not what it sounds like. Many Uighur children can\u2019t understand Uighur, and they can\u2019t really understand Mandarin Chinese either.<\/p>\n

As far as preferential birth-control policies are concerned, it\u2019s true that Uighurs are allowed to have two or three children. But Han Chinese living in Xinjiang are also able to have more than one child. And this is not a policy aimed at Uighurs; it\u2019s aimed at all ethnic minorities in China. On the other hand, I don\u2019t really consider this to be a preferential policy. As an ethnic group living in an autonomous region, we ought to be able to establish our own birth-control policies based on our own circumstances. Our population base is relatively small, only 10 million, and 80 percent are poor and live in rural areas that haven\u2019t been urbanized or industrialized. The Uighur population in Xinjiang is also aging, resulting in labor shortages and other problems. Many policies have really hurt us. Currently the male-female sex ratio is severely unbalanced. This is not only a problem for demographers\u2014many people have come to recognize it. Uighur females outnumber males, and many Uighur girls are unable to marry.<\/p>\n

When it comes to development of the economy, I think the thing Uighurs feel most upset about is the unfair way that resources are distributed. Extra points on the university exam or preferential birth-control policies are only a small part of the problem, in my opinion. They\u2019re not the essential problem. Receiving education in our own language ought to be our right. But over the past decade\u2014especially since 2005\u2014we\u2019ve been deprived of these rights in Xinjiang. Outsiders don\u2019t understand the reality and think we oppose bilingual education. That\u2019s not the case. Many Uighurs were originally illiterate and have begun studying Chinese of their own initiative.<\/p>\n

VOA<\/strong>: I\u2019ve heard people make the following argument: Xinjiang is a vast and rich territory, especially with regard to the rich mineral resources underground. If Xinjiang people possessed or controlled those resources, Xinjiang would become China\u2019s Kuwait. What rights do you think Uighurs ought to have over Xinjiang\u2019s natural resources?<\/p>\n

Ilham Tohti<\/strong>: What I\u2019d say is that the resources we\u2019re talking about are not just natural resources. There is also the resource of [political] power. Of the 15 seats on the Xinjiang Autonomous Region Party Committee, only four go to Uighurs. Those members are responsible for the labor union, the ethnic and religious affairs committee, and other bodies without any real power. Then there\u2019s the regional governor, Nur Bekri, but neither his two assistants, nor his driver, are Uighurs. None of the people responsible for departments connected to important matters like personnel, budget, land, finance, airlines, and railroads are Uighurs.<\/p>\n

As far as natural resources are concerned, central state-owned companies like PetroChina, Sinopec, and China Nonferrous Mining have monopolized the extraction rights for the resources in Xinjiang. On the other hand, most of the so-called private companies operating in Xinjiang are companies from outside Xinjiang, many of them relying on powerful connections, such as people from their home provinces who serve as officials in Xinjiang.<\/p>\n

As for Uighurs, our problem is survival\u2014more basic than economic development. Some Han scholars contend that Uighurs and Han face essentially the same problems. To some extent, I agree with them, since we\u2019re both facing common problems in terms of human rights, rule of law, and democracy. However, Uighurs also face a unique problem, one of social resources. We also face other problems like ethnic discrimination and religious issues, with pressures similar to those faced by China\u2019s Catholic and Protestant house churches.<\/p>\n

But the pressure facing us is even greater than that faced by house churches. This is because of our great differences from mainstream Han culture, including in terms of language, appearance, and religious beliefs. I tell Uighurs that we\u2019re facing two Chinas. The misunderstandings between us and the Chinese public can only be resolved through strengthening mutual interaction and understanding. But when it comes to the government, we all have to work together to promote reform and democratization and fight for our human rights.<\/p>\n

VOA<\/strong>: Can you share with us what you\u2019ve observed about how Xinjiang Uighurs exercise freedom of religion and take part in religious activities?<\/p>\n

Ilham Tohti<\/strong>: Last March, I wrote two pieces on the subject of religious freedom that were presented at an international academic conference held at the Chinese University of Hong Kong and included a great number of examples and photos. Uighurs\u2019 religion puts them in conflict with the materialism of the Communist Party, so the repression we\u2019ve faced is actually not a recent phenomenon.<\/p>\n

Uighurs\u2014like Han Chinese\u2014were given an atheist education from an early age. However, we are a religious people. The government has never before tried to control religion in Xinjiang as tightly as it does right now. There are many regulations in Xinjiang, such as prohibiting cadres, state enterprise employees, students, teachers, women, university students, and any children under the age of 18 from entering mosques. Now I ask you: who is<\/em> allowed to enter mosques?<\/p>\n

In Xinjiang, Arabic has become a special language that no one is allowed to teach. If you study Arabic, you might be breaking the law. I want to ask the government, what isn\u2019t<\/em> illegal? Where can Uighurs go to study their own religion? If members of society aren\u2019t allowed to study religion, then the government ought to provide an adequate number of Islamic colleges. I know that, in the United States and in the UK, there are such colleges.<\/p>\n

VOA<\/strong>: The Chinese government called the October 28 incident at Tiananmen Square a terrorist attack. Is this a reflection of the increasingly acute trajectory of social and ethnic tensions in Xinjiang?<\/p>\n

Ilham Tohti<\/strong>: I don\u2019t agree with those who say that ethnic conflict is growing more and more acute. I believe that what\u2019s getting more intense is the conflict between Uighurs and the government. No matter how you want to label it, the choice of Tiananmen for self-immolation, violent resistance, or protest is clearly an expression of dissatisfaction with the government.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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